1 00:00:07,370 --> 00:00:27,070 [Music] 2 00:00:27,080 --> 00:00:35,530 blast-off in my house there I feel like 3 00:00:41,479 --> 00:00:37,959 [Music] 4 00:00:43,310 --> 00:00:41,489 hello everyone this is Ryan the original 5 00:00:47,000 --> 00:00:43,320 outlaw of the airwaves bringing you a 6 00:00:49,760 --> 00:00:47,010 VIP episode of hero paranormal podcast 7 00:00:52,490 --> 00:00:49,770 coming to you from the base of la Madre 8 00:00:55,850 --> 00:00:52,500 mountain in the Mojave Desert south of 9 00:00:58,910 --> 00:00:55,860 area 51 if you haven't checked out hero 10 00:01:01,160 --> 00:00:58,920 paranormal comm please do drop a buck or 11 00:01:04,070 --> 00:01:01,170 more a month and become a patron boom 12 00:01:05,929 --> 00:01:04,080 you just entered a special Club of very 13 00:01:09,140 --> 00:01:05,939 few individuals helping me pay for 14 00:01:11,539 --> 00:01:09,150 websites podcasting fees costs and more 15 00:01:15,649 --> 00:01:11,549 plus you begin to get patron only 16 00:01:17,630 --> 00:01:15,659 episodes for a buck also if you want to 17 00:01:19,999 --> 00:01:17,640 donate just once and not worry about the 18 00:01:21,890 --> 00:01:20,009 monthly recurring I get that just donate 19 00:01:27,560 --> 00:01:21,900 once then hit cancel you're done it's 20 00:01:29,690 --> 00:01:27,570 that easy but I must warn you we are the 21 00:01:33,710 --> 00:01:29,700 best deal in the game in my opinion with 22 00:01:37,370 --> 00:01:33,720 solid content $8 a month gets you the 23 00:01:45,920 --> 00:01:37,380 rabbit-hole premium content 24 00:01:51,130 --> 00:01:45,930 and insider information well sometimes 25 00:01:54,480 --> 00:01:51,140 in this amazing existence called life 26 00:02:02,700 --> 00:01:54,490 we see things that closely resemble us 27 00:02:07,150 --> 00:02:02,710 yet don't we see lights anomalies 28 00:02:09,810 --> 00:02:07,160 ghost-like apparitions and we see things 29 00:02:16,480 --> 00:02:09,820 our minds tell us shouldn't be there 30 00:02:20,940 --> 00:02:16,490 or should they society tells us they 31 00:02:29,560 --> 00:02:23,650 Bigfoot is possibly the most iconic of 32 00:02:33,430 --> 00:02:29,570 these the new book where the footprints 33 00:02:37,600 --> 00:02:33,440 end high strangeness and the Bigfoot 34 00:02:41,979 --> 00:02:37,610 phenomenon by Joshua kuchen and Timothy 35 00:02:47,140 --> 00:02:41,989 Renner is an absolute must-read and is 36 00:02:51,400 --> 00:02:47,150 changing the game of cryptozoology with 37 00:02:56,560 --> 00:02:51,410 no further ado Joshua Quechan welcome to 38 00:02:57,150 --> 00:02:56,570 the hero paranormal podcast it sounds 39 00:03:00,729 --> 00:02:57,160 pretty good 40 00:03:03,720 --> 00:03:00,739 good hey my man I can't thank you enough 41 00:03:07,900 --> 00:03:03,730 for coming on and joining me to discuss 42 00:03:11,740 --> 00:03:07,910 like one of my favorite topics the the 43 00:03:17,940 --> 00:03:11,750 the artwork in the book is so cool - did 44 00:03:21,340 --> 00:03:17,950 you happen to do that yourself book yep 45 00:03:24,039 --> 00:03:21,350 yeah that's that's that's killer 46 00:03:26,020 --> 00:03:24,049 yeah well oh I got in Keith yeah he 47 00:03:28,210 --> 00:03:26,030 brings so people are always like you 48 00:03:29,710 --> 00:03:28,220 know where's the Olympic you book coming 49 00:03:33,009 --> 00:03:29,720 out with a book coming up I'm like folks 50 00:03:34,720 --> 00:03:33,019 you don't want you don't want you don't 51 00:03:36,509 --> 00:03:34,730 want the e-book you want this no you 52 00:03:40,420 --> 00:03:36,519 want that you want the hardcover because 53 00:03:41,650 --> 00:03:40,430 I think that I think that's like there's 54 00:03:43,000 --> 00:03:41,660 probably a good seven or eight 55 00:03:45,300 --> 00:03:43,010 illustrations that you don't get in the 56 00:03:48,610 --> 00:03:45,310 e-book that you get in the physical book 57 00:03:51,400 --> 00:03:48,620 yeah it's amazing and they're really 58 00:03:56,259 --> 00:03:51,410 cool the cover two is the creativity is 59 00:03:59,500 --> 00:03:56,269 just it's amazing if it's okay I'd like 60 00:04:03,610 --> 00:03:59,510 to read a review of where the footprints 61 00:04:04,900 --> 00:04:03,620 and is that okay if you'd like to read 62 00:04:07,690 --> 00:04:04,910 it read it review it yeah 63 00:04:09,910 --> 00:04:07,700 it's just it's great okay let me pull it 64 00:04:16,090 --> 00:04:09,920 up here I think this is the most 65 00:04:19,060 --> 00:04:16,100 accurate review - it is no no no it's 66 00:04:26,710 --> 00:04:19,070 it's great it's it's actually let's see 67 00:04:31,540 --> 00:04:26,720 it is by Greg Newkirk oh yeah okay 68 00:04:33,880 --> 00:04:31,550 yeah it's okay so the the review is this 69 00:04:36,370 --> 00:04:33,890 book poses a danger to the foundations 70 00:04:38,650 --> 00:04:36,380 of cryptozoology while mainstream 71 00:04:41,080 --> 00:04:38,660 Bigfoot investigators would have you 72 00:04:44,380 --> 00:04:41,090 believe that people around the world are 73 00:04:46,360 --> 00:04:44,390 merely encountering a lost ape kuchen 74 00:04:49,030 --> 00:04:46,370 and Renner dig into the details they've 75 00:04:52,260 --> 00:04:49,040 swept under the rug excavating countless 76 00:04:55,240 --> 00:04:52,270 Bigfoot reports involving glowing orbs 77 00:04:57,490 --> 00:04:55,250 telepathic communication and paranormal 78 00:05:00,010 --> 00:04:57,500 phenomena that have more in common with 79 00:05:03,420 --> 00:05:00,020 tales of ancient gods and alien 80 00:05:05,890 --> 00:05:03,430 abductions than they do with primatology 81 00:05:07,870 --> 00:05:05,900 meticulously researched and backed up 82 00:05:11,590 --> 00:05:07,880 with a treasure trove of footnotes man 83 00:05:14,970 --> 00:05:11,600 is that true where this is such a great 84 00:05:17,920 --> 00:05:14,980 review it's amazing 85 00:05:24,720 --> 00:05:17,930 Joshua like what got you down this path 86 00:05:29,380 --> 00:05:27,280 like a bunch of things and Bigfoot has 87 00:05:32,140 --> 00:05:29,390 always been sort of my number one love 88 00:05:33,760 --> 00:05:32,150 affair the paranormal so you know I 89 00:05:35,500 --> 00:05:33,770 started writing books and other books 90 00:05:37,030 --> 00:05:35,510 for about you know food and the 91 00:05:39,580 --> 00:05:37,040 paranormal and smells and the paranormal 92 00:05:42,280 --> 00:05:39,590 and you know the most recently before 93 00:05:47,080 --> 00:05:42,290 this you know supernatural child 94 00:05:48,430 --> 00:05:47,090 abduction and I actually this book was 95 00:05:52,380 --> 00:05:48,440 not my idea at all it was my co author 96 00:05:54,640 --> 00:05:52,390 Timothy runners I remember I was I was 97 00:05:56,860 --> 00:05:54,650 actually at the beach and I was I was 98 00:05:58,240 --> 00:05:56,870 getting ready to have my my twins we're 99 00:05:59,440 --> 00:05:58,250 getting ready to be born in a couple of 100 00:06:00,820 --> 00:05:59,450 months so I said I'm not going to write 101 00:06:02,770 --> 00:06:00,830 anything else because my life's gonna 102 00:06:04,180 --> 00:06:02,780 get too crazy and Tim phoned me up and 103 00:06:07,960 --> 00:06:04,190 said I want to do the definitive guide 104 00:06:09,850 --> 00:06:07,970 to weird Bigfoot I'm like okay so I 105 00:06:11,170 --> 00:06:09,860 cranked out as much of it as I could as 106 00:06:12,760 --> 00:06:11,180 quickly as I could 107 00:06:14,350 --> 00:06:12,770 there's how he said that you know there 108 00:06:18,730 --> 00:06:14,360 is still the second volume that's coming 109 00:06:23,050 --> 00:06:18,740 out but you know it's I I have 110 00:06:25,450 --> 00:06:23,060 real sympathy towards tan paranormal 111 00:06:28,480 --> 00:06:25,460 ideas unified field theories of the 112 00:06:33,010 --> 00:06:28,490 paranormal those sort of things um in my 113 00:06:33,670 --> 00:06:33,020 research and sort of my my research into 114 00:06:36,400 --> 00:06:33,680 these topics 115 00:06:40,240 --> 00:06:36,410 I very much landed on the fact that the 116 00:06:41,980 --> 00:06:40,250 modern UFO contact experience is almost 117 00:06:43,210 --> 00:06:41,990 completely identical to the to the 118 00:06:45,040 --> 00:06:43,220 Faerie contact experience especially 119 00:06:46,740 --> 00:06:45,050 very contact experiences that you would 120 00:06:48,279 --> 00:06:46,750 see in Western Europe I would argue 121 00:06:49,330 --> 00:06:48,289 worldwide they have a lot of 122 00:06:52,749 --> 00:06:49,340 similarities but especially those 123 00:06:55,990 --> 00:06:52,759 watching European ones and I got to the 124 00:06:58,570 --> 00:06:56,000 point where I said you know I can pretty 125 00:07:00,070 --> 00:06:58,580 much find anything in alien abduction 126 00:07:01,839 --> 00:07:00,080 lore I can find some president for 127 00:07:03,010 --> 00:07:01,849 inferior and that's been very true 128 00:07:04,719 --> 00:07:03,020 that's kind of what seems in the night 129 00:07:06,820 --> 00:07:04,729 was my third book about the child 130 00:07:08,529 --> 00:07:06,830 abduction was me trying to work out some 131 00:07:10,210 --> 00:07:08,539 of those ideas like well if this is this 132 00:07:11,350 --> 00:07:10,220 congruous between the fairy war and 133 00:07:13,149 --> 00:07:11,360 alien war 134 00:07:14,200 --> 00:07:13,159 if this congruous and what about these 135 00:07:15,490 --> 00:07:14,210 other things that I have a hard time 136 00:07:17,140 --> 00:07:15,500 fitting in I'm like oh no they actually 137 00:07:19,809 --> 00:07:17,150 do fit especially if you turn your head 138 00:07:24,969 --> 00:07:19,819 and squint a little bit um but so so 139 00:07:27,279 --> 00:07:24,979 where I was was if the fairy lore is 140 00:07:30,129 --> 00:07:27,289 connected to the alien lore and you have 141 00:07:31,540 --> 00:07:30,139 the realm of the Dead connected to fairy 142 00:07:32,740 --> 00:07:31,550 lore and the realm of the Dead is 143 00:07:35,879 --> 00:07:32,750 connected believe it or not in some 144 00:07:39,730 --> 00:07:35,889 modern alien abduction stories and 145 00:07:41,249 --> 00:07:39,740 Bigfoot is seen alongside UFOs in some 146 00:07:44,649 --> 00:07:41,259 cases like the famous up you know 147 00:07:46,209 --> 00:07:44,659 Pennsylvania flats in the 1970s if there 148 00:07:48,279 --> 00:07:46,219 is some sort of unified field theory 149 00:07:49,809 --> 00:07:48,289 like you know how does this work and 150 00:07:52,149 --> 00:07:49,819 that's really where all my interest of 151 00:07:54,189 --> 00:07:52,159 always lanús is in looking at the 152 00:07:56,110 --> 00:07:54,199 consistencies between these sort of 153 00:07:58,719 --> 00:07:56,120 ideas it's not in any individual 154 00:08:00,640 --> 00:07:58,729 accounts veracity that really attracts 155 00:08:02,140 --> 00:08:00,650 me to these topics it's the consistency 156 00:08:03,700 --> 00:08:02,150 between accounts so I don't know if this 157 00:08:06,939 --> 00:08:03,710 person is telling the truth and I don't 158 00:08:09,129 --> 00:08:06,949 know if this person from you know the 159 00:08:11,020 --> 00:08:09,139 Belgian Congo is telling the truth but 160 00:08:13,029 --> 00:08:11,030 you know their their accounts are 161 00:08:14,499 --> 00:08:13,039 separated by 50 years and they're 162 00:08:15,909 --> 00:08:14,509 describing the exactly and behavior from 163 00:08:16,959 --> 00:08:15,919 these entities so that to me suggests 164 00:08:18,850 --> 00:08:16,969 that there's some sort of objective 165 00:08:20,740 --> 00:08:18,860 reality behind that and that's what I 166 00:08:23,469 --> 00:08:20,750 find really interesting so this first 167 00:08:24,790 --> 00:08:23,479 volume you know it's one of two really 168 00:08:27,189 --> 00:08:24,800 does try to draw a lot of threads 169 00:08:28,659 --> 00:08:27,199 between things though we wouldn't 170 00:08:30,129 --> 00:08:28,669 necessarily perceive being related to 171 00:08:31,450 --> 00:08:30,139 Bigfoot at all you know I think it's 172 00:08:32,310 --> 00:08:31,460 pretty clear to me that whatever we're 173 00:08:34,920 --> 00:08:32,320 dealing with 174 00:08:37,740 --> 00:08:34,930 Bigfoot is a wild man archetype that we 175 00:08:40,850 --> 00:08:37,750 as a modern society it's worth sort of 176 00:08:43,110 --> 00:08:40,860 skinned on to or sort of layered on to 177 00:08:46,290 --> 00:08:43,120 under this phenomena so you know 178 00:08:48,930 --> 00:08:46,300 comparing that alien lore and fairy folk 179 00:08:51,900 --> 00:08:48,940 lore and ghost lore and ritual magic and 180 00:08:54,180 --> 00:08:51,910 which is and it's great with in a white 181 00:08:56,940 --> 00:08:54,190 connection that tim-tim rare found um 182 00:08:58,320 --> 00:08:56,950 it's just it's it's been the gift that 183 00:09:00,120 --> 00:08:58,330 keeps on giving because there are these 184 00:09:01,530 --> 00:09:00,130 similarities things that you see in 185 00:09:02,790 --> 00:09:01,540 alien encounters that you also see in 186 00:09:04,680 --> 00:09:02,800 some Bigfoot encounters that get 187 00:09:06,960 --> 00:09:04,690 underreported so just shining a light on 188 00:09:08,280 --> 00:09:06,970 that so long would it was a long wooded 189 00:09:09,680 --> 00:09:08,290 way to say shining a light on that has 190 00:09:11,760 --> 00:09:09,690 always been really appealing to me and 191 00:09:13,560 --> 00:09:11,770 tends the want to sort of give me the 192 00:09:16,470 --> 00:09:13,570 push over the edge to actually think 193 00:09:20,190 --> 00:09:16,480 that bleep yeah 194 00:09:22,680 --> 00:09:20,200 and I I could have had Tim on as well 195 00:09:24,600 --> 00:09:22,690 but maybe next time I I want to get to 196 00:09:26,550 --> 00:09:24,610 that Pennsylvania case as well as at the 197 00:09:33,360 --> 00:09:26,560 Delta Pennsylvania and the Cooper Road 198 00:09:36,540 --> 00:09:33,370 story well so if you look at if you look 199 00:09:39,630 --> 00:09:36,550 at the sort of I believe was early to 200 00:09:45,690 --> 00:09:39,640 mid 70s time in Pennsylvania especially 201 00:09:47,790 --> 00:09:45,700 the work of Stan Gordon up there was 202 00:09:49,470 --> 00:09:47,800 just kidding what seems like if you look 203 00:09:51,140 --> 00:09:49,480 back at some of his books especially saw 204 00:09:54,330 --> 00:09:51,150 an invasion it seems like he was getting 205 00:09:57,240 --> 00:09:54,340 case after case after case of people 206 00:09:58,890 --> 00:09:57,250 seeing anomalous lights in the sky and 207 00:10:00,450 --> 00:09:58,900 sometimes structured craft in these 208 00:10:02,250 --> 00:10:00,460 large hairy hominids either in close 209 00:10:04,040 --> 00:10:02,260 proximity or in conjunction with or 210 00:10:06,720 --> 00:10:04,050 immediately after these other sightings 211 00:10:11,520 --> 00:10:06,730 and you know Bigfoot appears alongside 212 00:10:13,440 --> 00:10:11,530 UFOs in a handful of other other 213 00:10:15,150 --> 00:10:13,450 accounts as well I would hesitate to say 214 00:10:17,880 --> 00:10:15,160 that it's common it's a common thing but 215 00:10:19,410 --> 00:10:17,890 I would definitely say that it's it's if 216 00:10:21,420 --> 00:10:19,420 there's too frequently to be ignored 217 00:10:24,120 --> 00:10:21,430 unfortunately you know the attitude in 218 00:10:26,100 --> 00:10:24,130 modern cryptozoology is that it should 219 00:10:27,840 --> 00:10:26,110 be ignored because we all know that it 220 00:10:30,450 --> 00:10:27,850 must be just some sort of you know 221 00:10:32,340 --> 00:10:30,460 relatively mundane ate or missing link 222 00:10:33,690 --> 00:10:32,350 and I think there's ample evidence to 223 00:10:35,220 --> 00:10:33,700 push back on that I think the case that 224 00:10:37,740 --> 00:10:35,230 you're referring to the big case that 225 00:10:41,640 --> 00:10:37,750 opens up the book is the the Fayette 226 00:10:42,930 --> 00:10:41,650 County Pennsylvania case where they do 227 00:10:44,430 --> 00:10:42,940 the tracer there's this big ball of 228 00:10:45,929 --> 00:10:44,440 light that comes down in the field and 229 00:10:48,859 --> 00:10:45,939 they shoot tracer rounds of the 230 00:10:53,399 --> 00:10:48,869 that's the one so this is sort of like 231 00:10:54,719 --> 00:10:53,409 the case from that era in terms of just 232 00:10:57,779 --> 00:10:54,729 combining up all the high strangeness 233 00:11:02,489 --> 00:10:57,789 there was this this gentleman by the 234 00:11:08,299 --> 00:11:02,499 name of George logic and he recalled 235 00:11:11,219 --> 00:11:08,309 seeing this large large ball of light 236 00:11:13,019 --> 00:11:11,229 land on his his father's farm and they 237 00:11:16,829 --> 00:11:13,029 go there this giant like or that's just 238 00:11:19,079 --> 00:11:16,839 glowing and as it go out in the field 239 00:11:21,210 --> 00:11:19,089 they see these trees like there's this 240 00:11:23,699 --> 00:11:21,220 whistling sound and they hear these two 241 00:11:27,119 --> 00:11:23,709 large dark shapes with no arms extending 242 00:11:30,479 --> 00:11:27,129 below their knees and if there's a stain 243 00:11:32,219 --> 00:11:30,489 walking in the glow of this giant orb 244 00:11:33,659 --> 00:11:32,229 and it looks like this giant hairy man 245 00:11:34,949 --> 00:11:33,669 thing they shoot these traits around 246 00:11:36,749 --> 00:11:34,959 that it so what that means you know they 247 00:11:38,369 --> 00:11:36,759 can actually see the realm you know 248 00:11:40,259 --> 00:11:38,379 because they're illuminated as being 249 00:11:43,079 --> 00:11:40,269 tracer rounds and even when they they 250 00:11:44,909 --> 00:11:43,089 were sure that they hit them and we just 251 00:11:47,999 --> 00:11:44,919 make this sound like dropping a bullet 252 00:11:49,589 --> 00:11:48,009 into the water and that's kind of the 253 00:11:50,609 --> 00:11:49,599 main the main narrative here in a lot of 254 00:11:52,169 --> 00:11:50,619 these books because this case has been 255 00:11:54,210 --> 00:11:52,179 talked about that nauseam Tim did a 256 00:11:56,609 --> 00:11:54,220 great job of digging up some further 257 00:11:59,039 --> 00:11:56,619 research once Dan Gordon arrived on the 258 00:12:00,329 --> 00:11:59,049 scene the glowing orb was gone it was 259 00:12:01,710 --> 00:12:00,339 still bright enough that he could he 260 00:12:03,689 --> 00:12:01,720 said he could read a newspaper in the 261 00:12:05,749 --> 00:12:03,699 center of the landing site but also one 262 00:12:11,009 --> 00:12:05,759 of the witnesses just went completely 263 00:12:13,739 --> 00:12:11,019 deranged and you know claimed to have 264 00:12:14,999 --> 00:12:13,749 these these visions this was you know 265 00:12:18,749 --> 00:12:15,009 the gentleman I was talking to Walter 266 00:12:23,249 --> 00:12:18,759 and he was having this be the possible 267 00:12:24,449 --> 00:12:23,259 apocalyptic visions of you know sort of 268 00:12:26,429 --> 00:12:24,459 the end of the world a sort of Grim 269 00:12:27,809 --> 00:12:26,439 Reaper thing and the story just keeps on 270 00:12:31,289 --> 00:12:27,819 getting weirder and weirder because the 271 00:12:33,299 --> 00:12:31,299 aftermath is just as odd he claimed that 272 00:12:35,489 --> 00:12:33,309 he didn't need his glasses anymore after 273 00:12:40,199 --> 00:12:35,499 having this apocalyptic vision after 274 00:12:42,089 --> 00:12:40,209 seeing UFO and Bigfoot and he was 275 00:12:46,229 --> 00:12:42,099 visited by some people from some 276 00:12:47,939 --> 00:12:46,239 individuals who to sort of had a min and 277 00:12:49,710 --> 00:12:47,949 black sort of role they told him that he 278 00:12:55,469 --> 00:12:49,720 should you know look into this there you 279 00:12:57,059 --> 00:12:55,479 know much further and yeah it's very 280 00:12:59,400 --> 00:12:57,069 it's a very strange story and it sort of 281 00:13:01,739 --> 00:12:59,410 is the litmus test 282 00:13:02,999 --> 00:13:01,749 for which all this other weird phenomena 283 00:13:04,499 --> 00:13:03,009 seems to conglomerate and it's 284 00:13:06,569 --> 00:13:04,509 interesting there are some people who 285 00:13:08,279 --> 00:13:06,579 have said that Bigfoot for the hunter 286 00:13:09,419 --> 00:13:08,289 who sees Bigfoot like you know walking 287 00:13:12,150 --> 00:13:09,429 through a forest while they're out 288 00:13:14,159 --> 00:13:12,160 hunting deer yes it does seem like a 289 00:13:15,539 --> 00:13:14,169 large hairy primate there's no reason to 290 00:13:18,299 --> 00:13:15,549 suspect otherwise but for people who 291 00:13:19,529 --> 00:13:18,309 have longitudinal interactions with 292 00:13:20,849 --> 00:13:19,539 these things on their property the 293 00:13:23,219 --> 00:13:20,859 people that we would call habituate errs 294 00:13:25,379 --> 00:13:23,229 they tend to describe things that sound 295 00:13:27,179 --> 00:13:25,389 a lot stranger and tend to resonate with 296 00:13:29,279 --> 00:13:27,189 things like poltergeist phenomena and 297 00:13:32,549 --> 00:13:29,289 hauntings you know sometimes seeing 298 00:13:34,679 --> 00:13:32,559 completely separate entities you know 299 00:13:36,509 --> 00:13:34,689 other than Bigfoot in the same area some 300 00:13:40,169 --> 00:13:36,519 people claim that you are long term 301 00:13:41,909 --> 00:13:40,179 habituated to seen you know these these 302 00:13:43,109 --> 00:13:41,919 Sasquatch that appear in their room in 303 00:13:45,089 --> 00:13:43,119 the rooms of their house and just sort 304 00:13:47,669 --> 00:13:45,099 of fade away and disappear and you know 305 00:13:49,649 --> 00:13:47,679 obviously not everyone is equally 306 00:13:52,649 --> 00:13:49,659 credible but the number of stories that 307 00:13:54,089 --> 00:13:52,659 that we found going through this going 308 00:13:55,409 --> 00:13:54,099 through the research for this book the 309 00:13:57,869 --> 00:13:55,419 number of stories where there was 310 00:14:00,210 --> 00:13:57,879 something weird but it got as Tim likes 311 00:14:01,769 --> 00:14:00,220 to say weird washed like they took just 312 00:14:02,879 --> 00:14:01,779 just the stuff that makes it sound like 313 00:14:04,590 --> 00:14:02,889 a big hairy ape and through all the 314 00:14:06,749 --> 00:14:04,600 weird stuff it happened Simon again 315 00:14:08,279 --> 00:14:06,759 there's two famous cases that I can 316 00:14:09,659 --> 00:14:08,289 think of off the top of my head one of 317 00:14:11,129 --> 00:14:09,669 course is you know eight Canyon which 318 00:14:12,329 --> 00:14:11,139 nobody has necessarily really gone out 319 00:14:14,099 --> 00:14:12,339 of their way to deny some of the 320 00:14:16,679 --> 00:14:14,109 stranger aspects of that Seminole 321 00:14:18,509 --> 00:14:16,689 encounter but at the same time you hear 322 00:14:19,739 --> 00:14:18,519 in almost every documentary about 323 00:14:22,590 --> 00:14:19,749 Bigfoot and they never talk about the 324 00:14:25,049 --> 00:14:22,600 weird stuff ever and then another one is 325 00:14:27,269 --> 00:14:25,059 uh this case out of organ that I talk 326 00:14:29,249 --> 00:14:27,279 about in the book that you know 327 00:14:30,749 --> 00:14:29,259 basically it describes it could you 328 00:14:33,210 --> 00:14:30,759 could take the narratives out of this 329 00:14:38,699 --> 00:14:33,220 particular newspaper article and drop it 330 00:14:40,829 --> 00:14:38,709 into a newspaper in 1812 in Ireland and 331 00:14:42,449 --> 00:14:40,839 everybody be like oh yes a fairy story 332 00:14:44,969 --> 00:14:42,459 except it's a fairy story with a giant 333 00:14:47,099 --> 00:14:44,979 12-foot pie you know man monster covered 334 00:14:48,749 --> 00:14:47,109 in hair covered in fur you know I found 335 00:14:50,819 --> 00:14:48,759 that same story in another book about 336 00:14:52,559 --> 00:14:50,829 large hairy hominid and they take all 337 00:14:55,379 --> 00:14:52,569 the weird stuff out you know which is in 338 00:14:57,779 --> 00:14:55,389 this case involved unearthly music this 339 00:14:59,879 --> 00:14:57,789 weird domed illuminated layer of the 340 00:15:01,619 --> 00:14:59,889 creature and this female captive who 341 00:15:03,649 --> 00:15:01,629 comes up and says please I'll freak you 342 00:15:07,349 --> 00:15:03,659 know your life depends on if this 343 00:15:09,359 --> 00:15:07,359 interconnected web just in absolute 344 00:15:11,159 --> 00:15:09,369 confusion but the thing that really 345 00:15:13,319 --> 00:15:11,169 becomes clear that these these sort of 346 00:15:16,169 --> 00:15:13,329 motifs and ideas dovetail and good 347 00:15:20,340 --> 00:15:16,179 I can force you know that they tend to 348 00:15:23,759 --> 00:15:20,350 cross-pollinate 11 I love your comment 349 00:15:25,559 --> 00:15:23,769 that is used in the book about consider 350 00:15:28,530 --> 00:15:25,569 the company that these things keep 351 00:15:31,350 --> 00:15:28,540 because you know it's interesting that 352 00:15:33,869 --> 00:15:31,360 you go into detail with the glowing orb 353 00:15:36,090 --> 00:15:33,879 I don't know if I'm gonna go against a 354 00:15:39,210 --> 00:15:36,100 BFRO NDA or not I'm gonna tread very 355 00:15:43,530 --> 00:15:39,220 carefully here but to not go into any 356 00:15:45,780 --> 00:15:43,540 detail myself and another researcher saw 357 00:15:48,689 --> 00:15:45,790 something on an expedition moments later 358 00:15:52,650 --> 00:15:48,699 a father and a son saw something and 359 00:15:55,460 --> 00:15:52,660 then they saw a glowing orb and because 360 00:15:58,470 --> 00:15:55,470 they saw the glowing orb the entire 361 00:16:00,569 --> 00:15:58,480 entire sighting that they had moments 362 00:16:02,189 --> 00:16:00,579 later was completely discounted they 363 00:16:04,259 --> 00:16:02,199 took me and the other researcher aside 364 00:16:05,910 --> 00:16:04,269 and separated us and got our information 365 00:16:11,150 --> 00:16:05,920 and they told the father and son sorry 366 00:16:14,910 --> 00:16:11,160 what do you mean maybe next time yeah 367 00:16:16,049 --> 00:16:14,920 it's weird like these things yeah in 368 00:16:17,609 --> 00:16:16,059 terms of the company they keep like 369 00:16:20,009 --> 00:16:17,619 that's something I told Tim a long time 370 00:16:23,309 --> 00:16:20,019 ago because we were talking about you 371 00:16:24,989 --> 00:16:23,319 know I mean I have so I mean I have a 372 00:16:26,909 --> 00:16:24,999 real soft spot for taking these things 373 00:16:28,739 --> 00:16:26,919 at cryptozoological face value in terms 374 00:16:30,090 --> 00:16:28,749 of being what we all thought they were 375 00:16:32,309 --> 00:16:30,100 as kids right like you know it's a 376 00:16:34,470 --> 00:16:32,319 Bigfoot is if you know a relic hominid 377 00:16:36,150 --> 00:16:34,480 and the Loch Ness monster the pleaseö 378 00:16:38,970 --> 00:16:36,160 sort but then you look at the fact that 379 00:16:41,449 --> 00:16:38,980 you know Loch Ness and that surrounding 380 00:16:45,900 --> 00:16:41,459 area has some really strange occult 381 00:16:48,720 --> 00:16:45,910 activity it's it's it's you know it's in 382 00:16:51,150 --> 00:16:48,730 an area that I would say is not it's 383 00:16:52,499 --> 00:16:51,160 certainly not a UFO dead zone I'd say 384 00:16:55,109 --> 00:16:52,509 that and then you look at the fact too 385 00:16:57,569 --> 00:16:55,119 that you know none other than Aleister 386 00:16:59,549 --> 00:16:57,579 Crowley said of the les canal so the 387 00:17:00,840 --> 00:16:59,559 shores of Loch Ness and like oh that 388 00:17:03,389 --> 00:17:00,850 sounds like this might be something a 389 00:17:06,659 --> 00:17:03,399 little bit more occulted than just a you 390 00:17:08,309 --> 00:17:06,669 know really species of dinosaur or 391 00:17:10,889 --> 00:17:08,319 something and I love those ideas they're 392 00:17:12,480 --> 00:17:10,899 romantic and I think that cryptozoology 393 00:17:14,519 --> 00:17:12,490 is a truly useful discipline they should 394 00:17:17,159 --> 00:17:14,529 be recognized for the powerful tool that 395 00:17:19,289 --> 00:17:17,169 it is i mean i i'm literally waiting any 396 00:17:21,059 --> 00:17:19,299 day now for us to have solid proof that 397 00:17:23,490 --> 00:17:21,069 there's a still a breeding population of 398 00:17:25,110 --> 00:17:23,500 silencing in australia you know the 399 00:17:26,939 --> 00:17:25,120 tasmanian tiger because there's such 400 00:17:29,279 --> 00:17:26,949 good photographic and 401 00:17:31,799 --> 00:17:29,289 and you know you know sort of secondary 402 00:17:32,909 --> 00:17:31,809 evidence for the existence of them and 403 00:17:35,070 --> 00:17:32,919 that's that's truly I think we're 404 00:17:36,779 --> 00:17:35,080 cryptology should be putting all its 405 00:17:38,640 --> 00:17:36,789 effort forward but you know if you're 406 00:17:39,960 --> 00:17:38,650 trying to work backwards from the idea 407 00:17:41,700 --> 00:17:39,970 that we're dealing with giant you know 408 00:17:43,890 --> 00:17:41,710 monkeys and then you have to try to 409 00:17:46,049 --> 00:17:43,900 retroactively leaf it glowing bulbs 410 00:17:47,279 --> 00:17:46,059 light in there I think that's sort of a 411 00:17:49,370 --> 00:17:47,289 fool's errand and stories like that 412 00:17:52,649 --> 00:17:49,380 really underscore that the fact that 413 00:17:56,490 --> 00:17:52,659 that these things get really weird 414 00:17:58,680 --> 00:17:56,500 really quick yes and I totally 415 00:18:00,360 --> 00:17:58,690 understand what the BFRO and other 416 00:18:02,460 --> 00:18:00,370 organizations are up against because 417 00:18:05,880 --> 00:18:02,470 they're already kind of trying to bring 418 00:18:07,260 --> 00:18:05,890 science into a fringe area where where 419 00:18:07,919 --> 00:18:07,270 they just want to stick to the facts 420 00:18:12,149 --> 00:18:07,929 ma'am 421 00:18:14,250 --> 00:18:12,159 type mentality yet you know they go you 422 00:18:16,799 --> 00:18:14,260 know some reports are just not even even 423 00:18:20,370 --> 00:18:16,809 classified it's it's so it's such a gray 424 00:18:23,700 --> 00:18:20,380 area and it's I think it's interesting 425 00:18:25,649 --> 00:18:23,710 that you there is a chapter and I'm I 426 00:18:27,840 --> 00:18:25,659 don't I'm gonna mess this word up I know 427 00:18:34,880 --> 00:18:27,850 I am so maybe you can help me Joshua 428 00:18:37,890 --> 00:18:34,890 wildness Geist wildness guys yeah so 429 00:18:40,380 --> 00:18:37,900 yeah you know I think that this is a 430 00:18:42,090 --> 00:18:40,390 problem we've seen in ufology too which 431 00:18:43,500 --> 00:18:42,100 is this idea that they wanna they just 432 00:18:46,440 --> 00:18:43,510 want to see the big kids table and 433 00:18:50,580 --> 00:18:46,450 winter night I make it argue I made 434 00:18:53,899 --> 00:18:50,590 argue in a a collection of essays from 435 00:19:03,180 --> 00:18:53,909 back in in 2000 I guess it was probably 436 00:19:06,419 --> 00:19:03,190 2017 now and it was you know they're 437 00:19:07,860 --> 00:19:06,429 basically this idea is that we shouldn't 438 00:19:09,570 --> 00:19:07,870 we shouldn't shy away from the weird 439 00:19:11,010 --> 00:19:09,580 parts of these stories because science 440 00:19:12,720 --> 00:19:11,020 is getting weirder and weirder by the 441 00:19:15,870 --> 00:19:12,730 day I mean come on anybody who follows 442 00:19:17,940 --> 00:19:15,880 any sort of science magazine in their 443 00:19:20,669 --> 00:19:17,950 social media feed knows Sciences saying 444 00:19:23,310 --> 00:19:20,679 stuff that it came from you know Richard 445 00:19:25,320 --> 00:19:23,320 C Hoagland or somebody you know one of 446 00:19:26,909 --> 00:19:25,330 the fringe of your kind of people in a 447 00:19:28,560 --> 00:19:26,919 lot of these topics like we would laugh 448 00:19:30,149 --> 00:19:28,570 at it but oh it's coming from it's 449 00:19:31,740 --> 00:19:30,159 coming from CERN and they're saying they 450 00:19:34,289 --> 00:19:31,750 see a dimension that moves backwards 451 00:19:36,649 --> 00:19:34,299 okay that makes sense so not only that 452 00:19:39,480 --> 00:19:36,659 but also you know there's this robust 453 00:19:40,360 --> 00:19:39,490 strong tradition that's really really 454 00:19:41,470 --> 00:19:40,370 pulling the rug out 455 00:19:44,230 --> 00:19:41,480 from underneath the material of 456 00:19:45,730 --> 00:19:44,240 physicalist paradigm and I think that is 457 00:19:48,280 --> 00:19:45,740 no better Illustrated than in the work 458 00:19:49,299 --> 00:19:48,290 of people like Dean Radin and Darrell 459 00:19:50,860 --> 00:19:49,309 dim and some of these other 460 00:19:52,750 --> 00:19:50,870 consciousness researchers who are really 461 00:19:54,790 --> 00:19:52,760 at the bleeding edge of this but you 462 00:19:55,930 --> 00:19:54,800 know to circle back around to that the 463 00:19:58,090 --> 00:19:55,940 term that you mentioned you know 464 00:20:00,100 --> 00:19:58,100 villainous guys it occurred to me a 465 00:20:01,660 --> 00:20:00,110 while back keeping that sort of you know 466 00:20:04,900 --> 00:20:01,670 the company these things keep sort of 467 00:20:07,810 --> 00:20:04,910 mindset that there were a lot of cases 468 00:20:09,670 --> 00:20:07,820 on things like the the BFRO website that 469 00:20:11,350 --> 00:20:09,680 are Class B reports which are things 470 00:20:12,549 --> 00:20:11,360 that people attribute to Bigfoot but 471 00:20:13,990 --> 00:20:12,559 they don't see a Bigfoot so we're 472 00:20:16,299 --> 00:20:14,000 talking about you know strange voices in 473 00:20:18,460 --> 00:20:16,309 the forest strange smells 474 00:20:19,840 --> 00:20:18,470 you know rocks and limbs being thrown at 475 00:20:23,440 --> 00:20:19,850 you hearing would knock seeing 476 00:20:25,540 --> 00:20:23,450 footprints seeing handprints you know 477 00:20:27,190 --> 00:20:25,550 gifts being left behind and it occurred 478 00:20:28,750 --> 00:20:27,200 to me that in the absence of Sasquatch 479 00:20:30,160 --> 00:20:28,760 if you take all those things and put 480 00:20:33,310 --> 00:20:30,170 them into a house you've got a 481 00:20:35,200 --> 00:20:33,320 poltergeist case like those are all 100% 482 00:20:37,180 --> 00:20:35,210 hallmarks of poltergeist kate's you know 483 00:20:39,400 --> 00:20:37,190 we think of poltergeist as being you 484 00:20:40,810 --> 00:20:39,410 know rattling cupboards and and banging 485 00:20:42,310 --> 00:20:40,820 dishes and and and while that is 486 00:20:43,930 --> 00:20:42,320 something that happens a lot of the time 487 00:20:45,730 --> 00:20:43,940 the things that manifest are you know 488 00:20:48,340 --> 00:20:45,740 strange of ports which find precedent 489 00:20:51,760 --> 00:20:48,350 and Bigfoot or with these gifts you know 490 00:20:53,080 --> 00:20:51,770 also you know rocks materializing and 491 00:20:54,340 --> 00:20:53,090 falling from the ceiling inside that are 492 00:20:56,169 --> 00:20:54,350 warm to the touch well a lot of these 493 00:20:57,940 --> 00:20:56,179 rocks that people get hit with in 494 00:21:00,520 --> 00:20:57,950 Bigfoot these Bigfoot classier sightings 495 00:21:01,630 --> 00:21:00,530 are all so warm to the touch but people 496 00:21:03,790 --> 00:21:01,640 assume it's Bigfoot holding them in 497 00:21:06,610 --> 00:21:03,800 their hand well it's also like I said a 498 00:21:10,240 --> 00:21:06,620 hallmark of poltergeist activity um you 499 00:21:12,400 --> 00:21:10,250 know smells strange voices footprints 500 00:21:13,930 --> 00:21:12,410 knocks especially I mean you know the 501 00:21:16,570 --> 00:21:13,940 two places that you'd find poltergeists 502 00:21:18,490 --> 00:21:16,580 were around you know are generally 503 00:21:20,470 --> 00:21:18,500 around an adolescent who typically is 504 00:21:22,990 --> 00:21:20,480 going through some sort of trauma or you 505 00:21:25,450 --> 00:21:23,000 know is pubescent and is sort of coming 506 00:21:27,150 --> 00:21:25,460 into puberty or you find them in seances 507 00:21:29,740 --> 00:21:27,160 and the chief means of communicating 508 00:21:32,350 --> 00:21:29,750 with a medium in a seance was by 509 00:21:34,090 --> 00:21:32,360 knocking you know knocking on you know 510 00:21:36,490 --> 00:21:34,100 the walls are knocking rapping on the 511 00:21:38,260 --> 00:21:36,500 table and then you couple that to with 512 00:21:39,790 --> 00:21:38,270 the fact that these poltergeists that 513 00:21:41,410 --> 00:21:39,800 were seen in these seances sometimes had 514 00:21:44,680 --> 00:21:41,420 physical forms that manifested as large 515 00:21:47,049 --> 00:21:44,690 hairy ape men so it seems to me that 516 00:21:48,370 --> 00:21:47,059 we're describing two sets of phenomena 517 00:21:50,290 --> 00:21:48,380 and the only thing that's really 518 00:21:51,340 --> 00:21:50,300 different is the settings so you know 519 00:21:52,710 --> 00:21:51,350 that I don't think anybody has really 520 00:21:55,169 --> 00:21:52,720 ever talked about the possibility 521 00:21:57,779 --> 00:21:55,179 they're being like a poltergeist that 522 00:21:59,340 --> 00:21:57,789 exists outside of house so for me I 523 00:22:01,289 --> 00:21:59,350 thought that the idea of illness guys 524 00:22:05,490 --> 00:22:01,299 you know from poltergeist is noisy 525 00:22:06,899 --> 00:22:05,500 poltroon noisy ghost guys or spirit 526 00:22:09,750 --> 00:22:06,909 I thought build miss Geist you know 527 00:22:11,279 --> 00:22:09,760 wilderness spirit might be a fitting 528 00:22:14,549 --> 00:22:11,289 term for these phenomena because look 529 00:22:16,110 --> 00:22:14,559 people have seen Bigfoot vocalizing and 530 00:22:17,820 --> 00:22:16,120 they've seen them throwing stones and 531 00:22:19,860 --> 00:22:17,830 they've seen them in conjunction with 532 00:22:22,830 --> 00:22:19,870 bad smells and they see that you know in 533 00:22:24,120 --> 00:22:22,840 conjunction with a lot of stuff so I'm 534 00:22:26,039 --> 00:22:24,130 not saying that isn't the case sometimes 535 00:22:27,539 --> 00:22:26,049 but at the same time if you didn't see 536 00:22:30,360 --> 00:22:27,549 Bigfoot to it you don't know a Bigfoot 537 00:22:31,649 --> 00:22:30,370 did it so it's just trying to get people 538 00:22:32,850 --> 00:22:31,659 to think in different ways you know I 539 00:22:35,159 --> 00:22:32,860 think if people would go through the 540 00:22:36,690 --> 00:22:35,169 book chapter by chapter expecting some 541 00:22:39,659 --> 00:22:36,700 sort of grand thesis where we all tie it 542 00:22:41,820 --> 00:22:39,669 together we don't we can't because you 543 00:22:44,850 --> 00:22:41,830 know whatever the phenomena is sheer so 544 00:22:47,490 --> 00:22:44,860 many attributes so closely with a lot of 545 00:22:48,990 --> 00:22:47,500 different other folk traditions that it 546 00:22:50,039 --> 00:22:49,000 really isn't possible to nail your to 547 00:22:52,680 --> 00:22:50,049 nail anything down the only conclusion 548 00:22:54,390 --> 00:22:52,690 that we really reach honestly 549 00:22:55,799 --> 00:22:54,400 and of course it's split I mean if we 550 00:22:57,330 --> 00:22:55,809 have any true sense of conclusion 551 00:22:59,640 --> 00:22:57,340 they're going to come in book two but um 552 00:23:01,560 --> 00:22:59,650 so it's split time it's kind of a little 553 00:23:05,940 --> 00:23:01,570 bit arbitrarily after the woman in white 554 00:23:07,140 --> 00:23:05,950 chapter but um the main conclusion that 555 00:23:08,669 --> 00:23:07,150 we have and I've talked to him about 556 00:23:11,399 --> 00:23:08,679 this numerous times is that you know we 557 00:23:12,720 --> 00:23:11,409 just don't know but if you are 558 00:23:14,520 --> 00:23:12,730 intellectually honest about a lot of 559 00:23:16,500 --> 00:23:14,530 this data it seems to push you farther 560 00:23:18,510 --> 00:23:16,510 away from the from the wood eight 561 00:23:21,210 --> 00:23:18,520 hypothesis which what I mean 562 00:23:22,830 --> 00:23:21,220 a group of monster kid I wanted to 563 00:23:25,860 --> 00:23:22,840 capture Bigfoot like that sounds great 564 00:23:27,899 --> 00:23:25,870 but if I'm looking at all this body of 565 00:23:30,299 --> 00:23:27,909 evidence and how even some of these 566 00:23:32,549 --> 00:23:30,309 mundane stories have these things that 567 00:23:34,529 --> 00:23:32,559 were attributed to witches or to fairies 568 00:23:37,289 --> 00:23:34,539 or - you know Harry ghosts back in other 569 00:23:38,909 --> 00:23:37,299 other you know centuries it makes me 570 00:23:40,200 --> 00:23:38,919 wonder if we're not dealing with 571 00:23:42,419 --> 00:23:40,210 something a little bit more people 572 00:23:43,860 --> 00:23:42,429 literally paranormal I hated the idea of 573 00:23:44,940 --> 00:23:43,870 paranormal big fat at one point but the 574 00:23:47,399 --> 00:23:44,950 more I look at I'm like oh this is 575 00:23:49,260 --> 00:23:47,409 actually kind of in it's only semi 576 00:23:52,380 --> 00:23:49,270 exploitive I know that explaining one 577 00:23:54,570 --> 00:23:52,390 unknown with another unknown is is is 578 00:23:58,310 --> 00:23:54,580 problematic in and of itself but you 579 00:24:00,870 --> 00:23:58,320 know it's 60 Plus 70 plus years of 580 00:24:02,909 --> 00:24:00,880 looking for a large hairy hominid in 581 00:24:04,520 --> 00:24:02,919 North America doesn't do the trick and 582 00:24:06,230 --> 00:24:04,530 maybe we have a Trier a different 583 00:24:09,860 --> 00:24:06,240 different angle in terms of how we how 584 00:24:12,320 --> 00:24:09,870 we interrogate these topics and you know 585 00:24:14,390 --> 00:24:12,330 Joshua I think you're right 586 00:24:17,500 --> 00:24:14,400 like there's no there's no 100% 587 00:24:20,630 --> 00:24:17,510 conclusion but the consistencies are 588 00:24:23,060 --> 00:24:20,640 remarkable and those simple numbers I 589 00:24:25,610 --> 00:24:23,070 wanted to get into the gaulden Cornell 590 00:24:29,480 --> 00:24:25,620 the generalities of poltergeist activity 591 00:24:31,790 --> 00:24:29,490 and Bigfoot and you know just how you 592 00:24:34,280 --> 00:24:31,800 know these things are 100 times more 593 00:24:37,000 --> 00:24:34,290 active at night like it goes through 594 00:24:40,130 --> 00:24:37,010 like 64 percent of the cases 595 00:24:43,220 --> 00:24:40,140 manipulation of small objects 58 percent 596 00:24:44,960 --> 00:24:43,230 peaked after nightfall 48 percent 597 00:24:50,540 --> 00:24:44,970 involved those trapping sounds pretty 598 00:24:52,520 --> 00:24:50,550 interesting stuff yeah study I think to 599 00:24:55,850 --> 00:24:52,530 my knowledge is probably the largest 600 00:24:58,100 --> 00:24:55,860 study in terms of studying poltergeist 601 00:24:59,900 --> 00:24:58,110 phenomena in terms of the data center 602 00:25:01,880 --> 00:24:59,910 they use they took took a look at about 603 00:25:04,490 --> 00:25:01,890 a hundred and seventy years worth of 604 00:25:06,260 --> 00:25:04,500 cases like you said it's all things you 605 00:25:07,700 --> 00:25:06,270 would expect of pics of phenomena 606 00:25:10,760 --> 00:25:07,710 there's a increased amount of activity 607 00:25:12,710 --> 00:25:10,770 at night you know there were a lot of 608 00:25:14,690 --> 00:25:12,720 you know almost half the cases involved 609 00:25:15,950 --> 00:25:14,700 these rapping sounds which in Bigfoot 610 00:25:18,050 --> 00:25:15,960 lore are wood knocks 611 00:25:19,790 --> 00:25:18,060 for some reason Bigfoot likes to bang on 612 00:25:23,630 --> 00:25:19,800 trees or bang rocks together or make 613 00:25:25,310 --> 00:25:23,640 these knocking sounds but it's the exact 614 00:25:26,630 --> 00:25:25,320 same form of spirit communication that 615 00:25:28,520 --> 00:25:26,640 you find these seances and in these 616 00:25:34,310 --> 00:25:28,530 poltergeist cases um you know moving 617 00:25:40,570 --> 00:25:34,320 heavy furniture there was a case from it 618 00:25:44,510 --> 00:25:40,580 was a case from snow Grove Lake Canada 619 00:25:46,190 --> 00:25:44,520 where an individual had a cabin that was 620 00:25:50,180 --> 00:25:46,200 up there filming for the Monster quest 621 00:25:52,160 --> 00:25:50,190 TV series and they actually had the 622 00:25:56,960 --> 00:25:52,170 cabin ransacked and this was an area 623 00:25:59,900 --> 00:25:56,970 with a lot of Bigfoot activity that you 624 00:26:01,340 --> 00:25:59,910 know it's oddly enough the moment that 625 00:26:02,810 --> 00:26:01,350 they decide to leave for a while so 626 00:26:04,340 --> 00:26:02,820 something moves in and just tears the 627 00:26:06,140 --> 00:26:04,350 entire cabin apart now of course that 628 00:26:07,550 --> 00:26:06,150 could be a prime know logical behavior 629 00:26:09,380 --> 00:26:07,560 or something like a bear going through 630 00:26:10,190 --> 00:26:09,390 the house but still that's the kind of 631 00:26:12,110 --> 00:26:10,200 thing you would expect from a 632 00:26:14,900 --> 00:26:12,120 poltergeist infestation to is working 633 00:26:17,240 --> 00:26:14,910 the furniture now something that the 634 00:26:18,230 --> 00:26:17,250 original something really interesting 635 00:26:19,850 --> 00:26:18,240 that 636 00:26:21,530 --> 00:26:19,860 Moorehead in your in your book you 637 00:26:23,270 --> 00:26:21,540 mentioned Allen berry and Ron Morehead 638 00:26:25,310 --> 00:26:23,280 recording a series of peculiar 639 00:26:27,740 --> 00:26:25,320 vocalizations they're known as the 640 00:26:29,960 --> 00:26:27,750 Sierra sounds and they involve 641 00:26:35,260 --> 00:26:29,970 disembodied voices can we go into that a 642 00:26:38,510 --> 00:26:35,270 little bit yes this book owes a large 643 00:26:40,220 --> 00:26:38,520 debt and obviously Ron Morehead is a 644 00:26:43,310 --> 00:26:40,230 great researcher in his own right but 645 00:26:45,799 --> 00:26:43,320 the ants late and al-bari book Bigfoot 646 00:26:47,810 --> 00:26:45,809 which is out of print but has a bunch of 647 00:26:48,950 --> 00:26:47,820 like weird really strange Bigfoot 648 00:26:50,270 --> 00:26:48,960 stories some of them were too long to 649 00:26:55,549 --> 00:26:50,280 actually make it and either of our books 650 00:26:58,640 --> 00:26:55,559 but al Barry and Ron Morehead were in 651 00:27:01,640 --> 00:26:58,650 the Sierra Nevada mountains and they 652 00:27:03,020 --> 00:27:01,650 would leave a microphone ID and in 653 00:27:04,790 --> 00:27:03,030 several instances they got what sounded 654 00:27:08,330 --> 00:27:04,800 like voices and and the most up-close 655 00:27:11,720 --> 00:27:08,340 voices are really guttural and odd and 656 00:27:13,850 --> 00:27:11,730 strange I do an impression I don't know 657 00:27:15,470 --> 00:27:13,860 if we want to do the head but they've 658 00:27:17,060 --> 00:27:15,480 been they've been sort of you can find 659 00:27:19,520 --> 00:27:17,070 them online if you just do Bigfoot 660 00:27:21,740 --> 00:27:19,530 Sierra sounds and they've been sort of 661 00:27:24,080 --> 00:27:21,750 referred to as sort of samurai chatter 662 00:27:26,330 --> 00:27:24,090 and there are some individuals you know 663 00:27:28,880 --> 00:27:26,340 used to be Navy linguistics experts who 664 00:27:30,860 --> 00:27:28,890 have come in and said these frequencies 665 00:27:32,360 --> 00:27:30,870 they're overtones etc they shouldn't be 666 00:27:35,480 --> 00:27:32,370 able to be manufactured by the human 667 00:27:37,220 --> 00:27:35,490 voice tracked by the human vocal cords 668 00:27:39,320 --> 00:27:37,230 it basically just came through with a 669 00:27:41,060 --> 00:27:39,330 spectral analysis I said this should be 670 00:27:46,040 --> 00:27:41,070 producible by human without any sort of 671 00:27:49,850 --> 00:27:46,050 uh you know augmentation but it is this 672 00:27:51,980 --> 00:27:49,860 really animalistic guttural vaguely 673 00:27:54,020 --> 00:27:51,990 Asiatic sort of speech pattern which is 674 00:27:57,020 --> 00:27:54,030 why people call the samurai samurai 675 00:27:58,760 --> 00:27:57,030 chatter case but Colin Wilson said of 676 00:28:00,710 --> 00:27:58,770 the voices that people hear in 677 00:28:02,360 --> 00:28:00,720 poltergeist cases he said they don't 678 00:28:04,370 --> 00:28:02,370 sound like ordinary human voices at 679 00:28:06,980 --> 00:28:04,380 least not at first he says they start 680 00:28:08,690 --> 00:28:06,990 sounding guttural and as if it's made up 681 00:28:10,910 --> 00:28:08,700 from animalistic sort of grunts and 682 00:28:12,560 --> 00:28:10,920 groans and that's exactly what is 683 00:28:15,470 --> 00:28:12,570 captured in the Sierra Nevada of the 684 00:28:20,690 --> 00:28:15,480 Sierra sounds tapes so again it's one of 685 00:28:23,919 --> 00:28:20,700 those things I unless you know I think 686 00:28:27,409 --> 00:28:23,929 that all the things that I described 687 00:28:29,299 --> 00:28:27,419 enter in the open skies chapter I think 688 00:28:30,740 --> 00:28:29,309 they are coming from some sort of large 689 00:28:31,940 --> 00:28:30,750 hairy ape I just think that that large 690 00:28:33,470 --> 00:28:31,950 hairy ape sometimes 691 00:28:35,180 --> 00:28:33,480 somehow tied to the poltergeist 692 00:28:37,310 --> 00:28:35,190 phenomena rather than saying it's just 693 00:28:39,230 --> 00:28:37,320 poltergeist in the woods but like yeah 694 00:28:42,289 --> 00:28:39,240 20 similarities are just you know it's 695 00:28:44,149 --> 00:28:42,299 bounding amazing amazing stuff so I 696 00:28:47,750 --> 00:28:44,159 guess wrapping up for our non patron 697 00:28:51,320 --> 00:28:47,760 listeners and I I think it's great how 698 00:28:53,659 --> 00:28:51,330 the the book really keeps tempo with 699 00:28:56,259 --> 00:28:53,669 like tongue-in-cheek humor while while 700 00:28:59,240 --> 00:28:56,269 delving deeply into the phenomenon and 701 00:29:02,720 --> 00:28:59,250 as an example can we discuss like the 702 00:29:04,639 --> 00:29:02,730 hairy fairies and modern fairy cases 703 00:29:07,419 --> 00:29:04,649 like the little foot or the what is it 704 00:29:09,710 --> 00:29:07,429 little feet or little footprints 705 00:29:14,680 --> 00:29:09,720 yeah little footprints or little 706 00:29:17,269 --> 00:29:14,690 footprints yes you know it's interesting 707 00:29:19,190 --> 00:29:17,279 people would say you know you can't even 708 00:29:22,399 --> 00:29:19,200 begin to comport number one fairies 709 00:29:23,840 --> 00:29:22,409 don't exist which on the surface of that 710 00:29:25,700 --> 00:29:23,850 comment I would I would tend to agree 711 00:29:30,399 --> 00:29:25,710 but I think that what fairy lore was 712 00:29:33,110 --> 00:29:30,409 describing is absolutely dialed into 713 00:29:36,680 --> 00:29:33,120 almost every aspect of the paranormal 714 00:29:38,779 --> 00:29:36,690 you'll ever find you know it's um I 715 00:29:41,659 --> 00:29:38,789 think that there's a strong case to be 716 00:29:44,240 --> 00:29:41,669 made that if you wanted to approach the 717 00:29:45,830 --> 00:29:44,250 paranormal with a fairy lore lens not 718 00:29:47,149 --> 00:29:45,840 only just again Western Europe but also 719 00:29:49,820 --> 00:29:47,159 worldwide which shares a lot of 720 00:29:51,289 --> 00:29:49,830 commonalities um I think I think you'd 721 00:29:53,029 --> 00:29:51,299 be hard-pressed to find anything that 722 00:29:55,940 --> 00:29:53,039 really falls outside of that sort of 723 00:29:57,529 --> 00:29:55,950 mythology in and of itself but the 724 00:29:58,970 --> 00:29:57,539 someone boughten people have that you 725 00:30:01,009 --> 00:29:58,980 know oval fairies are traditionally 726 00:30:04,700 --> 00:30:01,019 little people so how does a large hairy 727 00:30:06,620 --> 00:30:04,710 monkey act like a fairy will setting 728 00:30:08,450 --> 00:30:06,630 aside the you know the robust number of 729 00:30:10,460 --> 00:30:08,460 similarities in terms of their behavior 730 00:30:12,470 --> 00:30:10,470 you know fairies didn't have to be small 731 00:30:13,850 --> 00:30:12,480 fairies or rode the term fairy is really 732 00:30:16,940 --> 00:30:13,860 a catch-all for things that include 733 00:30:21,110 --> 00:30:16,950 mermaids and Pixies and Giants and ogres 734 00:30:23,210 --> 00:30:21,120 and trolls and also elves and you know 735 00:30:24,409 --> 00:30:23,220 you know the wee folk and all these 736 00:30:27,070 --> 00:30:24,419 basically all these different it's like 737 00:30:30,379 --> 00:30:27,080 a Pokemon catalog subscribe to the path 738 00:30:32,509 --> 00:30:30,389 and not only that but fairies can also 739 00:30:34,879 --> 00:30:32,519 shape-shift I mean there's some for the 740 00:30:36,769 --> 00:30:34,889 tail of an Icelandic changeling who in 741 00:30:38,450 --> 00:30:36,779 the in the story of the folk story it 742 00:30:39,649 --> 00:30:38,460 stretches so it's you know wakes up to 743 00:30:42,080 --> 00:30:39,659 the mill the night when it's apparent or 744 00:30:42,620 --> 00:30:42,090 asleep in the stretches so hard but it 745 00:30:44,510 --> 00:30:42,630 actually reached 746 00:30:47,210 --> 00:30:44,520 you know it reaches the rafters as it 747 00:30:49,310 --> 00:30:47,220 stretches so the idea that like you know 748 00:30:51,980 --> 00:30:49,320 fairies have to be small is a real 749 00:30:54,020 --> 00:30:51,990 misnomer and then once you start digging 750 00:30:56,660 --> 00:30:54,030 into the similarities I mean you know 751 00:30:58,280 --> 00:30:56,670 the number of little people that were 752 00:30:59,780 --> 00:30:58,290 described as being short and hairy I 753 00:31:02,600 --> 00:30:59,790 mean anything that's sort of a goblin 754 00:31:05,700 --> 00:31:02,610 variant by goblin variant I mean you 755 00:31:07,730 --> 00:31:05,710 know hobgoblins 756 00:31:11,270 --> 00:31:07,740 [Music] 757 00:31:13,880 --> 00:31:11,280 you know brownies I think Peck Enderlin 758 00:31:17,030 --> 00:31:13,890 with another sort of variant you'll find 759 00:31:21,290 --> 00:31:17,040 these you'll find these these 760 00:31:22,820 --> 00:31:21,300 similarities throughout folklore these 761 00:31:25,340 --> 00:31:22,830 like series being described as short 762 00:31:26,900 --> 00:31:25,350 little people with hairy bodies and 763 00:31:28,460 --> 00:31:26,910 monkey faces or at least you know 764 00:31:30,650 --> 00:31:28,470 wizened wrinkled faces which could 765 00:31:31,760 --> 00:31:30,660 describe a monkey face as well so it 766 00:31:32,930 --> 00:31:31,770 seems to me there's some similarity 767 00:31:35,450 --> 00:31:32,940 there especially when you consider that 768 00:31:37,130 --> 00:31:35,460 people in the you know in America in the 769 00:31:39,530 --> 00:31:37,140 modern America claim to a scene 770 00:31:42,830 --> 00:31:39,540 Littlefoot which is you know depending 771 00:31:46,340 --> 00:31:42,840 on your own personal uh your own 772 00:31:48,050 --> 00:31:46,350 personal ideas if either a little 773 00:31:50,180 --> 00:31:48,060 Bigfoot like an adolescent Bigfoot or 774 00:31:52,250 --> 00:31:50,190 it's a subspecies sometimes you see them 775 00:31:54,140 --> 00:31:52,260 together and you know that could very 776 00:31:55,730 --> 00:31:54,150 well be the case but the number of 777 00:31:57,410 --> 00:31:55,740 Faerie descriptions and people still 778 00:31:59,390 --> 00:31:57,420 encounter fairies like literally through 779 00:32:01,430 --> 00:31:59,400 to this day people say that you know in 780 00:32:05,270 --> 00:32:01,440 everywhere from the woods to you know 781 00:32:07,010 --> 00:32:05,280 you know rooftop gardens in London like 782 00:32:09,380 --> 00:32:07,020 people are still seeing these things how 783 00:32:10,430 --> 00:32:09,390 much socket but in those stories but but 784 00:32:11,930 --> 00:32:10,440 some of these descriptions don't 785 00:32:14,060 --> 00:32:11,940 describe these little hairy people and 786 00:32:15,350 --> 00:32:14,070 you couple that shape-shifting idea with 787 00:32:18,230 --> 00:32:15,360 the idea that some people have seen 788 00:32:21,080 --> 00:32:18,240 Bigfoot disappear and shape-shift and 789 00:32:22,760 --> 00:32:21,090 all these crazy things and it sort of 790 00:32:24,500 --> 00:32:22,770 there's a little bit of extra strength 791 00:32:25,610 --> 00:32:24,510 to the to the fairy folk on Hospice um 792 00:32:27,560 --> 00:32:25,620 you know people say Bigfoot lives 793 00:32:29,750 --> 00:32:27,570 underground and fairy you know fairyland 794 00:32:32,240 --> 00:32:29,760 was often times the pictures being 795 00:32:33,950 --> 00:32:32,250 underground people say that people used 796 00:32:35,840 --> 00:32:33,960 to say that you know if your horse was 797 00:32:37,400 --> 00:32:35,850 in the stable with this Mane all tangle 798 00:32:39,830 --> 00:32:37,410 and you know tangled and woven together 799 00:32:41,030 --> 00:32:39,840 that was the the fairies who came in or 800 00:32:42,800 --> 00:32:41,040 the witches who came in and mill the 801 00:32:44,180 --> 00:32:42,810 night and braided these Mane's and there 802 00:32:46,220 --> 00:32:44,190 are flesh-and-blood bigfooters who claim 803 00:32:47,090 --> 00:32:46,230 now that if you find your horse and it's 804 00:32:49,100 --> 00:32:47,100 stable overnight 805 00:32:50,690 --> 00:32:49,110 it was the Bigfoot braiding horses mains 806 00:32:52,250 --> 00:32:50,700 so there's a lot of these things that 807 00:32:53,600 --> 00:32:52,260 have carried over from the older body of 808 00:32:56,120 --> 00:32:53,610 folklore and we're just grasping the 809 00:32:57,710 --> 00:32:56,130 move onto this Bigfoot phenomenon 810 00:32:59,570 --> 00:32:57,720 I think that's I think that's pretty in 811 00:33:03,530 --> 00:32:59,580 my case in my sense at least that's 812 00:33:05,240 --> 00:33:03,540 relatively obvious that this is at least 813 00:33:07,700 --> 00:33:05,250 part of what's going on and you look at 814 00:33:11,060 --> 00:33:07,710 some of these words I mean there are 815 00:33:13,070 --> 00:33:11,070 some there are some Bigfoot variants of 816 00:33:18,020 --> 00:33:13,080 some you know First Nations tribes here 817 00:33:19,940 --> 00:33:18,030 in America that literally are literally 818 00:33:23,780 --> 00:33:19,950 you know Bigfoot analogues that are 819 00:33:25,370 --> 00:33:23,790 talked about in scholarly fairy folklore 820 00:33:27,520 --> 00:33:25,380 so the idea that Bigfoot couldn't 821 00:33:30,530 --> 00:33:27,530 possibly be fairies is sort of you know 822 00:33:32,810 --> 00:33:30,540 it's if if we're already done the 823 00:33:34,340 --> 00:33:32,820 Bigfoot root why not just go why not try 824 00:33:36,380 --> 00:33:34,350 to accomplish the full you know a 825 00:33:38,180 --> 00:33:36,390 spectrum of weirdness the other thing 826 00:33:39,710 --> 00:33:38,190 that really baffled me is you know we 827 00:33:43,100 --> 00:33:39,720 tend to think of you know the lion's 828 00:33:44,570 --> 00:33:43,110 share of Bigfoot prints being you know 829 00:33:47,450 --> 00:33:44,580 five to a foot prints and I think that's 830 00:33:48,950 --> 00:33:47,460 true I think most of them are you know 831 00:33:50,930 --> 00:33:48,960 volume two is gonna go into things like 832 00:33:54,160 --> 00:33:50,940 disappearing trackway is an oddly note 833 00:33:56,120 --> 00:33:54,170 oddly numbered toes on to be suppressed 834 00:33:58,310 --> 00:33:56,130 that's what I found interesting is that 835 00:34:00,020 --> 00:33:58,320 you know after five toes the most common 836 00:34:02,060 --> 00:34:00,030 thing at these three-toed footprints I'm 837 00:34:04,520 --> 00:34:02,070 truly so fascinated by the Bigfoot 838 00:34:06,080 --> 00:34:04,530 phenomenon and you know three toes five 839 00:34:08,000 --> 00:34:06,090 toes who knows 840 00:34:10,669 --> 00:34:08,010 there's so many different variants like 841 00:34:13,430 --> 00:34:10,679 you said and the most important thing is 842 00:34:15,379 --> 00:34:13,440 where can people go to support your 843 00:34:23,389 --> 00:34:15,389 efforts and keep up with with what 844 00:34:26,030 --> 00:34:23,399 you're doing to this interview I'm in 845 00:34:28,010 --> 00:34:26,040 the footnote I like that's my back 846 00:34:29,659 --> 00:34:28,020 because you know I want people I want to 847 00:34:31,100 --> 00:34:29,669 encourage people to sort of follow up on 848 00:34:32,659 --> 00:34:31,110 their storm you know what they're 849 00:34:33,980 --> 00:34:32,669 interested in and sort of go a little 850 00:34:35,690 --> 00:34:33,990 dive a little bit deeper so that that's 851 00:34:38,810 --> 00:34:35,700 part of that continuing a mission for me 852 00:34:41,869 --> 00:34:38,820 and you can find all of my stuff at 853 00:34:47,960 --> 00:34:41,879 Joshua touching calm that's Jay OHSU a 854 00:34:50,629 --> 00:34:47,970 Cu TCH I am calm Tim's work you can find 855 00:34:51,260 --> 00:34:50,639 at other dark holler artists that's dark 856 00:34:56,419 --> 00:34:51,270 holler 857 00:34:59,360 --> 00:34:56,429 hol ER or it's calm or you can also find 858 00:35:03,230 --> 00:34:59,370 him at the strange familiars podcast 859 00:35:04,130 --> 00:35:03,240 which I'm not only that strange familiar 860 00:35:07,940 --> 00:35:04,140 Stockholm 861 00:35:09,320 --> 00:35:07,950 I have I have in addition to Weatherford 862 00:35:11,750 --> 00:35:09,330 Clinton vol 1 863 00:35:13,040 --> 00:35:11,760 I have three other bucks without a total 864 00:35:15,290 --> 00:35:13,050 fees which is all about the food and 865 00:35:16,550 --> 00:35:15,300 drink offerings in Clermont counties the 866 00:35:18,380 --> 00:35:16,560 business of the seat which is all about 867 00:35:19,100 --> 00:35:18,390 terrible smells like smells associate 868 00:35:22,820 --> 00:35:19,110 with the paranormal 869 00:35:25,040 --> 00:35:22,830 and and these midnight which is my book 870 00:35:27,260 --> 00:35:25,050 on a supernatural child abduction in 871 00:35:29,210 --> 00:35:27,270 volume 2 of where the foot puts in city 872 00:35:29,540 --> 00:35:29,220 else we're aiming for the end of the 873 00:35:30,920 --> 00:35:29,550 year 874 00:35:34,520 --> 00:35:30,930 now question it best laid plans and all 875 00:35:36,500 --> 00:35:34,530 that but for the end of the year man 876 00:35:38,450 --> 00:35:36,510 such a great book I'm so glad that you 877 00:35:41,180 --> 00:35:38,460 you took some time to talk with us 878 00:35:42,950 --> 00:35:41,190 Joshua and I hope to talk again I wish 879 00:35:47,440 --> 00:35:42,960 you the best take care and I hope we 880 00:35:53,090 --> 00:35:50,840 amazing amazing stuff with Joshua kuchen 881 00:35:56,510 --> 00:35:53,100 am i right and Timothy Renner let's not 882 00:36:00,040 --> 00:35:56,520 forget that where the footprints end is 883 00:36:03,080 --> 00:36:00,050 a must-buy you guys have to read this 884 00:36:05,540 --> 00:36:03,090 something us ranch owners in 885 00:36:08,300 --> 00:36:05,550 shapeshifter territory of Utah are all 886 00:36:13,130 --> 00:36:08,310 too familiar with where footprints 887 00:36:17,030 --> 00:36:13,140 actually really do just end recently at 888 00:36:19,550 --> 00:36:17,040 space wolf research we had Robert Crider 889 00:36:21,770 --> 00:36:19,560 who I hope to someday have on the 890 00:36:23,750 --> 00:36:21,780 podcast anyway his team Crider 891 00:36:25,580 --> 00:36:23,760 exploration went through every inch of 892 00:36:27,950 --> 00:36:25,590 space wolf research along with two 893 00:36:29,960 --> 00:36:27,960 navajo trackers who are used to tracking 894 00:36:32,540 --> 00:36:29,970 skinwalkers and shapeshifters in the 895 00:36:34,790 --> 00:36:32,550 Four Corners area they stayed in a 896 00:36:37,460 --> 00:36:34,800 40-foot RV known as the haunted flying 897 00:36:41,780 --> 00:36:37,470 dutchman I'll go into how hard it is to 898 00:36:44,210 --> 00:36:41,790 ship a reportedly haunted RV from 899 00:36:46,190 --> 00:36:44,220 Chicago Illinois to shapeshifter 900 00:36:48,350 --> 00:36:46,200 territory arguably the most 901 00:36:51,470 --> 00:36:48,360 scientifically studied paranormal 902 00:36:53,420 --> 00:36:51,480 hotspot on the planet well the math can 903 00:36:55,610 --> 00:36:53,430 be thrown out the window statistically 904 00:36:59,180 --> 00:36:55,620 of how it's possible that lightning 905 00:37:01,640 --> 00:36:59,190 struck this RV and vaporized it and 906 00:37:04,190 --> 00:37:01,650 incinerated it the week after Crider 907 00:37:07,160 --> 00:37:04,200 exploration left not to mention it was a 908 00:37:10,190 --> 00:37:07,170 complete loss sadly the RV had just been 909 00:37:13,760 --> 00:37:10,200 remodeled by West Chestnut and his son 910 00:37:15,950 --> 00:37:13,770 who our space wolf research MVPs so 911 00:37:18,000 --> 00:37:15,960 helpful with stuff all over the property 912 00:37:19,980 --> 00:37:18,010 all over the place really and 913 00:37:22,470 --> 00:37:19,990 it was a small price to pay for the 914 00:37:24,630 --> 00:37:22,480 possibility of getting humanity's 915 00:37:26,970 --> 00:37:24,640 biggest questions looked into theorized 916 00:37:29,640 --> 00:37:26,980 about maybe even answered is there life 917 00:37:31,830 --> 00:37:29,650 after death is this reality the only one 918 00:37:34,500 --> 00:37:31,840 is this dimension what we think it is 919 00:37:37,650 --> 00:37:34,510 how many lives do we get is time travel 920 00:37:41,160 --> 00:37:37,660 possible join hero paranormals patron 921 00:37:43,140 --> 00:37:41,170 tear the rabbit hole $8 a month who 922 00:37:44,970 --> 00:37:43,150 knows if we delve deep enough maybe 923 00:37:47,610 --> 00:37:44,980 we'll find out or just listen to the 924 00:37:50,850 --> 00:37:47,620 free episodes also subscribe on YouTube 925 00:37:55,290 --> 00:37:50,860 and check us out on social media space 926 00:37:59,190 --> 00:37:55,300 wolf research it's under SWR on facebook 927 00:38:02,190 --> 00:37:59,200 or hero paranormal com you can find that 928 00:38:05,070 --> 00:38:02,200 under hero paranormal also here a 929 00:38:08,610 --> 00:38:05,080 paranormal on Twitter or hero paranormal 930 00:38:12,120 --> 00:38:08,620 pod been calm until next time friends 931 00:38:14,970 --> 00:38:12,130 keep your eyes to the skies feet on the 932 00:38:22,860 --> 00:38:14,980 ground but don't forget to take a look 933 00:38:22,870 --> 00:38:44,420 [Music]